Andmustnotweswimandtrytoreachtheshore：wewillhopethatArion’sdolphinorsomeothermiraculoushelpmaysaveus？
Isupposeso，hesaid。
Wellthen，letusseeifanywayofescapecanbefound。Weacknowledged——didwenot？thatdifferentnaturesoughttohavedifferentpursuits，andthatmen’sandwomen’snaturesaredifferent。Andnowwhatarewesaying？——thatdifferentnaturesoughttohavethesamepursuits，——thisistheinconsistencywhichischargeduponus。
Precisely。
Verily，Glaucon，Isaid，gloriousisthepoweroftheartofcontradiction！
Whydoyousayso？
BecauseIthinkthatmanyamanfallsintothepracticeagainsthiswill。Whenhethinksthatheisreasoningheisreallydisputing，justbecausehecannotdefineanddivide，andsoknowthatofwhichheisspeaking；andhewillpursueamerelyverbaloppositioninthespiritofcontentionandnotoffairdiscussion。
Yes，hereplied，suchisveryoftenthecase；butwhathasthattodowithusandourargument？
Agreatdeal；forthereiscertainlyadangerofourgettingunintentionallyintoaverbalopposition。
Inwhatway？
Why，wevaliantlyandpugnaciouslyinsistupontheverbaltruth，thatdifferentnaturesoughttohavedifferentpursuits，butweneverconsideredatallwhatwasthemeaningofsamenessordifferenceofnature，orwhywedistinguishedthemwhenweassigneddifferentpursuitstodifferentnaturesandthesametothesamenatures。
Why，no，hesaid，thatwasneverconsideredbyus。
Isaid：Supposethatbywayofillustrationweweretoaskthequestionwhetherthereisnotanoppositioninnaturebetweenbaldmenandhairymen；andifthisisadmittedbyus，then，ifbaldmenarecobblers，weshouldforbidthehairymentobecobblers，andconversely？
Thatwouldbeajest，hesaid。
Yes，Isaid，ajest；andwhy？becausewenevermeantwhenweconstructedtheState，thattheoppositionofnaturesshouldextendtoeverydifference，butonlytothosedifferenceswhichaffectedthepursuitinwhichtheindividualisengaged；weshouldhaveargued，forexample，thataphysicianandonewhoisinmindaphysicianmaybesaidtohavethesamenature。
True。
Whereasthephysicianandthecarpenterhavedifferentnatures？
Certainly。
Andif，Isaid，themaleandfemalesexappeartodifferintheirfitnessforanyartorpursuit，weshouldsaythatsuchpursuitorartoughttobeassignedtooneortheotherofthem；butifthedifferenceconsistsonlyinwomenbearingandmenbegettingchildren，thisdoesnotamounttoaproofthatawomandiffersfromamaninrespectofthesortofeducationsheshouldreceive；andweshallthereforecontinuetomaintainthatourguardiansandtheirwivesoughttohavethesamepursuits。
Verytrue，hesaid。
Next，weshallaskouropponenthow，inreferencetoanyofthepursuitsorartsofciviclife，thenatureofawomandiffersfromthatofaman？
Thatwillbequitefair。
Andperhapshe，likeyourself，willreplythattogiveasufficientanswerontheinstantisnoteasy；butafteralittlereflectionthereisnodifficulty。
Yes，perhaps。
Supposethenthatweinvitehimtoaccompanyusintheargument，andthenwemayhopetoshowhimthatthereisnothingpeculiarintheconstitutionofwomenwhichwouldaffectthemintheadministrationoftheState。
Byallmeans。
Letussaytohim：Comenow，andwewillaskyouaquestion：
——whenyouspokeofanaturegiftedornotgiftedinanyrespect，didyoumeantosaythatonemanwillacquireathingeasily，anotherwithdifficulty；alittlelearningwillleadtheonetodiscoveragreatdeal；whereastheother，aftermuchstudyandapplication，nosoonerlearnsthanheforgets；oragain，didyoumean，thattheonehasabodywhichisagoodservanttohismind，whilethebodyoftheotherisahindrancetohim？—wouldnotthesebethesortofdifferenceswhichdistinguishthemangiftedbynaturefromtheonewhoisungifted？
Noonewilldenythat。
Andcanyoumentionanypursuitofmankindinwhichthemalesexhasnotallthesegiftsandqualitiesinahigherdegreethanthefemale？NeedIwastetimeinspeakingoftheartofweaving，andthemanagementofpancakesandpreserves，inwhichwomankinddoesreallyappeartobegreat，andinwhichforhertobebeatenbyamanisofallthingsthemostabsurd？
Youarequiteright，hereplied，inmaintainingthegeneralinferiorityofthefemalesex：althoughmanywomenareinmanythingssuperiortomanymen，yetonthewholewhatyousayistrue。
Andifso，myfriend，Isaid，thereisnospecialfacultyofadministrationinastatewhichawomanhasbecausesheisawoman，orwhichamanhasbyvirtueofhissex，butthegiftsofnaturearealikediffusedinboth；allthepursuitsofmenarethepursuitsofwomenalso，butinallofthemawomanisinferiortoaman。
Verytrue。
Thenarewetoimposeallourenactmentsonmenandnoneofthemonwomen？
Thatwillneverdo。
Onewomanhasagiftofhealing，anothernot；oneisamusician，andanotherhasnomusicinhernature？
Verytrue。
Andonewomanhasaturnforgymnasticandmilitaryexercises，andanotherisunwarlikeandhatesgymnastics？
Certainly。
Andonewomanisaphilosopher，andanotherisanenemyofphilosophy；onehasspirit，andanotheriswithoutspirit？
Thatisalsotrue。
Thenonewomanwillhavethetemperofaguardian，andanothernot。Wasnottheselectionofthemaleguardiansdeterminedbydifferencesofthissort？
Yes。
Menandwomenalikepossessthequalitieswhichmakeaguardian；
theydifferonlyintheircomparativestrengthorweakness。
Obviously。
Andthosewomenwhohavesuchqualitiesaretobeselectedasthecompanionsandcolleaguesofmenwhohavesimilarqualitiesandwhomtheyresembleincapacityandincharacter？
Verytrue。
Andoughtnotthesamenaturestohavethesamepursuits？
Theyought。
Then，asweweresayingbefore，thereisnothingunnaturalinassigningmusicandgymnastictothewivesoftheguardians——tothatpointwecomeroundagain。
Certainlynot。
Thelawwhichwethenenactedwasagreeabletonature，andthereforenotanimpossibilityormereaspiration；andthecontrarypractice，whichprevailsatpresent，isinrealityaviolationofnature。
Thatappearstobetrue。
Wehadtoconsider，first，whetherourproposalswerepossible，andsecondlywhethertheywerethemostbeneficial？
Yes。
Andthepossibilityhasbeenacknowledged？
Yes。
Theverygreatbenefithasnexttobeestablished？
Quiteso。
Youwilladmitthatthesameeducationwhichmakesamanagoodguardianwillmakeawomanagoodguardian；fortheiroriginalnatureisthesame？
Yes。
Ishouldliketoaskyouaquestion。
Whatisit？
Wouldyousaythatallmenareequalinexcellence，orisonemanbetterthananother？
Thelatter。
Andinthecommonwealthwhichwewerefoundingdoyouconceivetheguardianswhohavebeenbroughtuponourmodelsystemtobemoreperfectmen，orthecobblerswhoseeducationhasbeencobbling？
Whataridiculousquestion！
Youhaveansweredme，Ireplied：Well，andmaywenotfurthersaythatourguardiansarethebestofourcitizens？
Byfarthebest。
Andwillnottheirwivesbethebestwomen？
Yes，byfarthebest。
AndcantherebeanythingbetterfortheinterestsoftheStatethanthatthemenandwomenofaStateshouldbeasgoodaspossible？
Therecanbenothingbetter。
Andthisiswhattheartsofmusicandgymnastic，whenpresentinsuchmanneraswehavedescribed，willaccomplish？
Certainly。
ThenwehavemadeanenactmentnotonlypossiblebutinthehighestdegreebeneficialtotheState？
True。
Thenletthewivesofourguardiansstrip，fortheirvirtuewillbetheirrobe，andletthemshareinthetoilsofwarandthedefenceoftheircountry；onlyinthedistributionoflaboursthelighteraretobeassignedtothewomen，whoaretheweakernatures，butinotherrespectstheirdutiesaretobethesame。Andasforthemanwholaughsatnakedwomenexercisingtheirbodiesfromthebestofmotives，inhislaughterheispluckingAfruitofunripewisdom，andhehimselfisignorantofwhatheislaughingat，orwhatheisabout；——forthatis，andeverwillbe，thebestofsayings，Thattheusefulisthenobleandthehurtfulisthebase。
Verytrue。
Here，then，isonedifficultyinourlawaboutwomen，whichwemaysaythatwehavenowescaped；thewavehasnotswallowedusupaliveforenactingthattheguardiansofeithersexshouldhavealltheirpursuitsincommon；totheutilityandalsotothepossibilityofthisarrangementtheconsistencyoftheargumentwithitselfbearswitness。
Yes，thatwasamightywavewhichyouhaveescaped。
Yes，Isaid，butagreateriscoming；youwillofthiswhenyouseethenext。
Goon；letmesee。
Thelaw，Isaid，whichisthesequelofthisandofallthathaspreceded，istothefollowingeffect，——’thatthewivesofourguardiansaretobecommon，andtheirchildrenaretobecommon，andnoparentistoknowhisownchild，noranychildhisparent。’
Yes，hesaid，thatisamuchgreaterwavethantheother；andthepossibilityaswellastheutilityofsuchalawarefarmorequestionable。
Idonotthink，Isaid，thattherecanbeanydisputeabouttheverygreatutilityofhavingwivesandchildrenincommon；thepossibilityisquiteanothermatter，andwillbeverymuchdisputed。
Ithinkthatagoodmanydoubtsmayberaisedaboutboth。
Youimplythatthetwoquestionsmustbecombined，Ireplied。NowImeantthatyoushouldadmittheutility；andinthisway，asI
thought；Ishouldescapefromoneofthem，andthentherewouldremainonlythepossibility。
Butthatlittleattemptisdetected，andthereforeyouwillpleasetogiveadefenceofboth。
Well，Isaid，Isubmittomyfate。Yetgrantmealittlefavour：letmefeastmymindwiththedreamasdaydreamersareinthehabitoffeastingthemselveswhentheyarewalkingalone；forbeforetheyhavediscoveredanymeansofeffectingtheirwishes——thatisamatterwhichnevertroublesthem——theywouldrathernottirethemselvesbythinkingaboutpossibilities；butassumingthatwhattheydesireisalreadygrantedtothem，theyproceedwiththeirplan，anddelightindetailingwhattheymeantodowhentheirwishhascometrue——thatisawaywhichtheyhaveofnotdoingmuchgoodtoacapacitywhichwasnevergoodformuch。NowImyselfambeginningtoloseheart，andIshouldlike，withyourpermission，topassoverthequestionofpossibilityatpresent。Assumingthereforethepossibilityoftheproposal，Ishallnowproceedtoenquirehowtherulerswillcarryoutthesearrangements，andIshalldemonstratethatourplan，ifexecuted，willbeofthegreatestbenefittotheStateandtotheguardians。Firstofall，then，ifyouhavenoobjection，Iwillendeavourwithyourhelptoconsidertheadvantagesofthemeasure；
andhereafterthequestionofpossibility。
Ihavenoobjection；proceed。
First，Ithinkthatifourrulersandtheirauxiliariesaretobeworthyofthenamewhichtheybear，theremustbewillingnesstoobeyintheoneandthepowerofcommandintheother；theguardiansmustthemselvesobeythelaws，andtheymustalsoimitatethespiritoftheminanydetailswhichareentrustedtotheircare。
Thatisright，hesaid。
You，Isaid，whoaretheirlegislator，havingselectedthemen，willnowselectthewomenandgivethemtothem；——theymustbeasfaraspossibleoflikenatureswiththem；andtheymustliveincommonhousesandmeetatcommonmeals，Noneofthemwillhaveanythingspeciallyhisorherown；theywillbetogether，andwillbebroughtuptogether，andwillassociateatgymnasticexercises。Andsotheywillbedrawnbyanecessityoftheirnaturestohaveintercoursewitheachother——necessityisnottoostrongaword，Ithink？
Yes，hesaid；——necessity，notgeometrical，butanothersortofnecessitywhichloversknow，andwhichisfarmoreconvincingandconstrainingtothemassofmankind。
True，Isaid；andthis，Glaucon，likealltherest，mustproceedafteranorderlyfashion；inacityoftheblessed，licentiousnessisanunholythingwhichtherulerswillforbid。
Yes，hesaid，anditoughtnottobepermitted。
Thenclearlythenextthingwillbetomakematrimonysacredinthehighestdegree，andwhatismostbeneficialwillbedeemedsacred？
Exactly。
Andhowcanmarriagesbemademostbeneficial？——thatisaquestionwhichIputtoyou，becauseIseeinyourhousedogsforhunting，andofthenoblersortofbirdsnotafew。Now，Ibeseechyou，dotellme，haveyoueverattendedtotheirpairingandbreeding？
Inwhatparticulars？
Why，inthefirstplace，althoughtheyareallofagoodsort，arenotsomebetterthanothers？
True。
Anddoyoubreedfromthemallindifferently，ordoyoutakecaretobreedfromthebestonly？
Fromthebest。
Anddoyoutaketheoldestortheyoungest，oronlythoseofripeage？
Ichooseonlythoseofripeage。
Andifcarewasnottakeninthebreeding，yourdogsandbirdswouldgreatlydeteriorate？
Certainly。
Andthesameofhorsesandanimalsingeneral？
Undoubtedly。
Goodheavens！mydearfriend，Isaid，whatconsummateskillwillourrulersneedifthesameprincipleholdsofthehumanspecies！
Certainly，thesameprincipleholds；butwhydoesthisinvolveanyparticularskill？
Because，Isaid，ourrulerswilloftenhavetopractiseuponthebodycorporatewithmedicines。Nowyouknowthatwhenpatientsdonotrequiremedicines，buthaveonlytobeputunderaregimen，theinferiorsortofpractitionerisdeemedtobegoodenough；butwhenmedicinehastobegiven，thenthedoctorshouldbemoreofaman。
Thatisquitetrue，hesaid；buttowhatareyoualluding？
Imean，Ireplied，thatourrulerswillfindaconsiderabledoseoffalsehoodanddeceitnecessaryforthegoodoftheirsubjects：weweresayingthattheuseofallthesethingsregardedasmedicinesmightbeofadvantage。
Andwewereveryright。
Andthislawfuluseofthemseemslikelytobeoftenneededintheregulationsofmarriagesandbirths。
Howso？
Why，Isaid，theprinciplehasbeenalreadylaiddownthatthebestofeithersexshouldbeunitedwiththebestasoften，andtheinferiorwiththeinferior，asseldomaspossible；andthattheyshouldreartheoffspringoftheonesortofunion，butnotoftheother，iftheflockistobemaintainedinfirst—ratecondition。Nowthesegoingsonmustbeasecretwhichtherulersonlyknow，ortherewillbeafurtherdangerofourherd，astheguardiansmaybetermed，breakingoutintorebellion。
Verytrue。
Hadwenotbetterappointcertainfestivalsatwhichwewillbringtogetherthebridesandbridegrooms，andsacrificeswillbeofferedandsuitablehymenealsongscomposedbyourpoets：thenumberofweddingsisamatterwhichmustbelefttothediscretionoftherulers，whoseaimwillbetopreservetheaverageofpopulation？Therearemanyotherthingswhichtheywillhavetoconsider，suchastheeffectsofwarsanddiseasesandanysimilaragencies，inorderasfarasthisispossibletopreventtheStatefrombecomingeithertoolargeortoosmall。
Certainly，hereplied。
Weshallhavetoinventsomeingeniouskindoflotswhichthelessworthymaydrawoneachoccasionofourbringingthemtogether，andthentheywillaccusetheirownill—luckandnottherulers。
Tobesure，hesaid。
AndIthinkthatourbraverandbetteryouth，besidestheirotherhonoursandrewards，mighthavegreaterfacilitiesofintercoursewithwomengiventhem；theirbraverywillbeareason，andsuchfathersoughttohaveasmanysonsaspossible。
True。
Andtheproperofficers，whethermaleorfemaleorboth，forofficesaretobeheldbywomenaswellasbymen——
Yes——
Theproperofficerswilltaketheoffspringofthegoodparentstothepenorfold，andtheretheywilldepositthemwithcertainnurseswhodwellinaseparatequarter；buttheoffspringoftheinferior，orofthebetterwhentheychancetobedeformed，willbeputawayinsomemysterious，unknownplace，astheyshouldbe。
Yes，hesaid，thatmustbedoneifthebreedoftheguardiansistobekeptpure。
Theywillprovidefortheirnurture，andwillbringthemotherstothefoldwhentheyarefullofmilk，takingthegreatestpossiblecarethatnomotherrecognizesherownchild；andotherwet—nursesmaybeengagedifmorearerequired。Carewillalsobetakenthattheprocessofsucklingshallnotbeprotractedtoolong；andthemotherswillhavenogettingupatnightorothertrouble，butwillhandoverallthissortofthingtothenursesandattendants。
Yousupposethewivesofourguardianstohaveafineeasytimeofitwhentheyarehavingchildren。
Why，saidI，andsotheyought。Letus，however，proceedwithourscheme。Weweresayingthattheparentsshouldbeintheprimeoflife？
Verytrue。
Andwhatistheprimeoflife？Mayitnotbedefinedasaperiodofabouttwentyyearsinawoman’slife，andthirtyinaman’s？
Whichyearsdoyoumeantoinclude？
Awoman，Isaid，attwentyyearsofagemaybegintobearchildrentotheState，andcontinuetobearthemuntilforty；amanmaybeginatfive—and—twenty，whenhehaspassedthepointatwhichthepulseoflifebeatsquickest，andcontinuetobegetchildrenuntilhebefifty—five。
Certainly，hesaid，bothinmenandwomenthoseyearsaretheprimeofphysicalaswellasofintellectualvigour。
Anyoneaboveorbelowtheprescribedageswhotakespartinthepublichymenealsshallbesaidtohavedoneanunholyandunrighteousthing；thechildofwhichheisthefather，ifitstealsintolife，willhavebeenconceivedunderauspicesveryunlikethesacrificesandprayers，whichateachhymenealpriestessesandpriestandthewholecitywilloffer，thatthenewgenerationmaybebetterandmoreusefulthantheirgoodandusefulparents，whereashischildwillbetheoffspringofdarknessandstrangelust。
Verytrue，hereplied。
Andthesamelawwillapplytoanyoneofthosewithintheprescribedagewhoformsaconnectionwithanywomanintheprimeoflifewithoutthesanctionoftherulers；forweshallsaythatheisraisingupabastardtotheState，uncertifiedandunconsecrated。
Verytrue，hereplied。
Thisapplies，however，onlytothosewhoarewithinthespecifiedage：afterthatweallowthemtorangeatwill，exceptthatamanmaynotmarryhisdaughterorhisdaughter’sdaughter，orhismotherorhismother’smother；andwomen，ontheotherhand，areprohibitedfrommarryingtheirsonsorfathers，orson’ssonorfather’sfather，andsoonineitherdirection。Andwegrantallthis，accompanyingthepermissionwithstrictorderstopreventanyembryowhichmaycomeintobeingfromseeingthelight；andifanyforceawaytothebirth，theparentsmustunderstandthattheoffspringofsuchanunioncannotbemaintained，andarrangeaccordingly。
Thatalso，hesaid，isareasonableproposition。Buthowwilltheyknowwhoarefathersanddaughters，andsoon？
Theywillneverknow。Thewaywillbethis：——datingfromthedayofthehymeneal，thebridegroomwhowasthenmarriedwillcallallthemalechildrenwhoarebornintheseventhandtenthmonthafterwardshissons，andthefemalechildrenhisdaughters，andtheywillcallhimfather，andhewillcalltheirchildrenhisgrandchildren，andtheywillcalltheeldergenerationgrandfathersandgrandmothers。Allwhowerebegottenatthetimewhentheirfathersandmotherscametogetherwillbecalledtheirbrothersandsisters，andthese，asI