Nay，verymuchthereverse。
Andstillhewillgoonimitatingwithoutknowingwhatmakesathinggoodorbad，andmaybeexpectedthereforetoimitateonlythatwhichappearstobegoodtotheignorantmultitude？
Justso。
Thusfarthenweareprettywellagreedthattheimitatorhasnoknowledgeworthmentioningofwhatheimitates。Imitationisonlyakindofplayorsport，andthetragicpoets，whethertheywriteiniambicorinHeroicverse，areimitatorsinthehighestdegree？
Verytrue。
Andnowtellme，Iconjureyou，hasnotimitationbeenshownbyustobeconcernedwiththatwhichisthriceremovedfromthetruth？
Certainly。
Andwhatisthefacultyinmantowhichimitationisaddressed？
Whatdoyoumean？
Iwillexplain：Thebodywhichislargewhenseennear，appearssmallwhenseenatadistance？
True。
Andthesameobjectappearsstraightwhenlookedatoutofthewater，andcrookedwheninthewater；andtheconcavebecomesconvex，owingtotheillusionaboutcolourstowhichthesightisliable。Thuseverysortofconfusionisrevealedwithinus；andthisisthatweaknessofthehumanmindonwhichtheartofconjuringandofdeceivingbylightandshadowandotheringeniousdevicesimposes，havinganeffectuponuslikemagic。
True。
Andtheartsofmeasuringandnumberingandweighingcometotherescueofthehumanunderstanding—thereisthebeautyofthem——andtheapparentgreaterorless，ormoreorheavier，nolongerhavethemasteryoverus，butgivewaybeforecalculationandmeasureandweight？
Mosttrue。
Andthis，surely，mustbetheworkofthecalculatingandrationalprincipleinthesoulTobesure。
Andwhenthisprinciplemeasuresandcertifiesthatsomethingsareequal，orthatsomearegreaterorlessthanothers，thereoccursanapparentcontradiction？
True。
Butwerewenotsayingthatsuchacontradictionisthesamefacultycannothavecontraryopinionsatthesametimeaboutthesamething？
Verytrue。
Thenthatpartofthesoulwhichhasanopinioncontrarytomeasureisnotthesamewiththatwhichhasanopinioninaccordancewithmeasure？
True。
Andthebetterpartofthesoulislikelytobethatwhichtruststomeasureandcalculation？
Certainly。
Andthatwhichisopposedtothemisoneoftheinferiorprinciplesofthesoul？
Nodoubt。
ThiswastheconclusionatwhichIwasseekingtoarrivewhenIsaidthatpaintingordrawing，andimitationingeneral，whendoingtheirownproperwork，arefarremovedfromtruth，andthecompanionsandfriendsandassociatesofaprinciplewithinuswhichisequallyremovedfromreason，andthattheyhavenotrueorhealthyaim。
Exactly。
Theimitativeartisaninferiorwhomarriesaninferior，andhasinferioroffspring。
Verytrue。
Andisthisconfinedtothesightonly，ordoesitextendtothehearingalso，relatinginfacttowhatwetermpoetry？
Probablythesamewouldbetrueofpoetry。
Donotrely，Isaid，onaprobabilityderivedfromtheanalogyofpainting；butletusexaminefurtherandseewhetherthefacultywithwhichpoeticalimitationisconcernedisgoodorbad。
Byallmeans。
Wemaystatethequestionthus：——Imitationimitatestheactionsofmen，whethervoluntaryorinvoluntary，onwhich，astheyimagine，agoodorbadresulthasensued，andtheyrejoiceorsorrowaccordingly。
Isthereanythingmore？
No，thereisnothingelse。
Butinallthisvarietyofcircumstancesisthemanatunitywithhimself——orrather，asintheinstanceofsighttherewasconfusionandoppositioninhisopinionsaboutthesamethings，soherealsoistherenotstrifeandinconsistencyinhislife？ThoughIneedhardlyraisethequestionagain，forIrememberthatallthishasbeenalreadyadmitted；andthesoulhasbeenacknowledgedbyustobefulloftheseandtenthousandsimilaroppositionsoccurringatthesamemoment？
Andwewereright，hesaid。
Yes，Isaid，thusfarwewereright；buttherewasanomissionwhichmustnowbesupplied。
Whatwastheomission？
Werewenotsayingthatagoodman，whohasthemisfortunetolosehissonoranythingelsewhichismostdeartohim，willbearthelosswithmoreequanimitythananother？
Yes。
Butwillhehavenosorrow，orshallwesaythatalthoughhecannothelpsorrowing，hewillmoderatehissorrow？
Thelatter，hesaid，isthetruerstatement。
Tellme：willhebemorelikelytostruggleandholdoutagainsthissorrowwhenheisseenbyhisequals，orwhenheisalone？
Itwillmakeagreatdifferencewhetherheisseenornot。
Whenheisbyhimselfhewillnotmindsayingordoingmanythingswhichhewouldbeashamedofanyonehearingorseeinghimdo？
True。
Thereisaprincipleoflawandreasoninhimwhichbidshimresist，aswellasafeelingofhismisfortunewhichisforcinghimtoindulgehissorrow？
True。
Butwhenamanisdrawnintwooppositedirections，toandfromthesameobject，this，asweaffirm，necessarilyimpliestwodistinctprinciplesinhim？
Certainly。
Oneofthemisreadytofollowtheguidanceofthelaw？
Howdoyoumean？
Thelawwouldsaythattobepatientundersufferingisbest，andthatweshouldnotgivewaytoimpatience，asthereisnoknowingwhethersuchthingsaregoodorevil；andnothingisgainedbyimpatience；also，becausenohumanthingisofseriousimportance，andgriefstandsinthewayofthatwhichatthemomentismostrequired。
Whatismostrequired？heasked。
Thatweshouldtakecounselaboutwhathashappened，andwhenthedicehavebeenthrownorderouraffairsinthewaywhichreasondeemsbest；not，likechildrenwhohavehadafall，keepingholdofthepartstruckandwastingtimeinsettingupahowl，butalwaysaccustomingthesoulforthwithtoapplyaremedy，raisingupthatwhichissicklyandfallen，banishingthecryofsorrowbythehealingart。
Yes，hesaid，thatisthetruewayofmeetingtheattacksoffortune。
Yes，Isaid；andthehigherprincipleisreadytofollowthissuggestionofreason？
Clearly。
Andtheotherprinciple，whichinclinesustorecollectionofourtroublesandtolamentation，andcanneverhaveenoughofthem，wemaycallirrational，useless，andcowardly？
Indeed，wemay。
Anddoesnotthelatter——Imeantherebelliousprinciple——furnishagreatvarietyofmaterialsforimitation？Whereasthewiseandcalmtemperament，beingalwaysnearlyequable，isnoteasytoimitateortoappreciatewhenimitated，especiallyatapublicfestivalwhenapromiscuouscrowdisassembledinatheatre。Forthefeelingrepresentedisonetowhichtheyarestrangers。
Certainly。
Thentheimitativepoetwhoaimsatbeingpopularisnotbynaturemade，norishisartintended，topleaseortoaffecttheprincipleinthesoul；buthewillpreferthepassionateandfitfultemper，whichiseasilyimitated？
Clearly。
Andnowwemayfairlytakehimandplacehimbythesideofthepainter，forheislikehimintwoways：first，inasmuchashiscreationshaveaninferiordegreeoftruth——inthis，Isay，heislikehim；andheisalsolikehiminbeingconcernedwithaninferiorpartofthesoul；andthereforeweshallberightinrefusingtoadmithimintoawell—orderedState，becauseheawakensandnourishesandstrengthensthefeelingsandimpairsthereason。Asinacitywhentheevilarepermittedtohaveauthorityandthegoodareputoutoftheway，sointhesoulofman，aswemaintain，theimitativepoetimplantsanevilconstitution，forheindulgestheirrationalnaturewhichhasnodiscernmentofgreaterandless，butthinksthesamethingatonetimegreatandatanothersmall—heisamanufacturerofimagesandisveryfarremovedfromthetruth。
Exactly。
Butwehavenotyetbroughtforwardtheheaviestcountinouraccusation：——thepowerwhichpoetryhasofharmingeventhegood（andthereareveryfewwhoarenotharmed），issurelyanawfulthing？
Yes，certainly，iftheeffectiswhatyousay。
Hearandjudge：Thebestofus，asIconceive，whenwelistentoapassageofHomer，oroneofthetragedians，inwhichherepresentssomepitifulherowhoisdrawlingouthissorrowsinalongoration，orweeping，andsmitinghisbreast——thebestofus，youknow，delightingivingwaytosympathy，andareinrapturesattheexcellenceofthepoetwhostirsourfeelingsmost。
Yes，ofcourseIknow。
Butwhenanysorrowofourownhappenstous，thenyoumayobservethatweprideourselvesontheoppositequality——wewouldfainbequietandpatient；thisisthemanlypart，andtheotherwhichdelightedusintherecitationisnowdeemedtobethepartofawoman。
Verytrue，hesaid。
Nowcanweberightinpraisingandadmiringanotherwhoisdoingthatwhichanyoneofuswouldabominateandbeashamedofinhisownperson？
No，hesaid，thatiscertainlynotreasonable。
Nay，Isaid，quitereasonablefromonepointofview。
Whatpointofview？
Ifyouconsider，Isaid，thatwheninmisfortunewefeelanaturalhungeranddesiretorelieveoursorrowbyweepingandlamentation，andthatthisfeelingwhichiskeptundercontrolinourowncalamitiesissatisfiedanddelightedbythepoets；—thebetternatureineachofus，nothavingbeensufficientlytrainedbyreasonorhabit，allowsthesympatheticelementtobreakloosebecausethesorrowisanother’s；andthespectatorfanciesthattherecanbenodisgracetohimselfinpraisingandpityinganyonewhocomestellinghimwhatagoodmanheis，andmakingafussabouthistroubles；hethinksthatthepleasureisagain，andwhyshouldhebesuperciliousandlosethisandthepoemtoo？Fewpersonseverreflect，asIshouldimagine，thatfromtheevilofothermensomethingofeviliscommunicatedtothemselves。Andsothefeelingofsorrowwhichhasgatheredstrengthatthesightofthemisfortunesofothersiswithdifficultyrepressedinourown。
Howverytrue！
Anddoesnotthesameholdalsooftheridiculous？Therearejestswhichyouwouldbeashamedtomakeyourself，andyetonthecomicstage，orindeedinprivate，whenyouhearthem，youaregreatlyamusedbythem，andarenotatalldisgustedattheirunseemliness；
——thecaseofpityisrepeated；——thereisaprincipleinhumannaturewhichisdisposedtoraisealaugh，andthiswhichyouoncerestrainedbyreason，becauseyouwereafraidofbeingthoughtabuffoon，isnowletoutagain；andhavingstimulatedtherisiblefacultyatthetheatre，youarebetrayedunconsciouslytoyourselfintoplayingthecomicpoetathome。
Quitetrue，hesaid。
Andthesamemaybesaidoflustandangerandalltheotheraffections，ofdesireandpainandpleasure，whichareheldtobeinseparablefromeveryaction———inallofthempoetryfeedsandwatersthepassionsinsteadofdryingthemup；sheletsthemrule，althoughtheyoughttobecontrolled，ifmankindareevertoincreaseinhappinessandvirtue。
Icannotdenyit。
Therefore，Glaucon，Isaid，wheneveryoumeetwithanyoftheeulogistsofHomerdeclaringthathehasbeentheeducatorofHellas，andthatheisprofitableforeducationandfortheorderingofhumanthings，andthatyoushouldtakehimupagainandagainandgettoknowhimandregulateyourwholelifeaccordingtohim，wemayloveandhonourthosewhosaythesethings——theyareexcellentpeople，asfarastheirlightsextend；andwearereadytoacknowledgethatHomeristhegreatestofpoetsandfirstoftragedywriters；
butwemustremainfirminourconvictionthathymnstothegodsandpraisesoffamousmenaretheonlypoetrywhichoughttobeadmittedintoourState。Forifyougobeyondthisandallowthehoneyedmusetoenter，eitherinepicorlyricverse，notlawandthereasonofmankind，whichbycommonconsenthaveeverbeendeemedbest，butpleasureandpainwillbetherulersinourState。
Thatismosttrue，hesaid。
Andnowsincewehaverevertedtothesubjectofpoetry，letthisourdefenceservetoshowthereasonablenessofourformerjudgmentinsendingawayoutofourStateanarthavingthetendencieswhichwehavedescribed；forreasonconstrainedus。Butthatshemayimputetousanyharshnessorwantofpoliteness，letustellherthatthereisanancientquarrelbetweenphilosophyandpoetry；ofwhichtherearemanyproofs，suchasthesayingof’theyelpinghoundhowlingatherlord，’orofone’mightyinthevaintalkoffools，’
and’themobofsagescircumventingZeus，’andthe’subtlethinkerswhoarebeggarsafterall’；andthereareinnumerableothersignsofancientenmitybetweenthem。Notwithstandingthis，letusassureoursweetfriendandthesisterartsofimitationthatifshewillonlyprovehertitletoexistinawell—orderedStateweshallbedelightedtoreceiveher——weareveryconsciousofhercharms；butwemaynotonthataccountbetraythetruth。Idaresay，Glaucon，thatyouareasmuchcharmedbyherasIam，especiallywhensheappearsinHomer？
Yes，indeed，Iamgreatlycharmed。
ShallIpropose，then，thatshebeallowedtoreturnfromexile，butuponthisconditiononly——thatshemakeadefenceofherselfinlyricalorsomeothermetre？
Certainly。
Andwemayfurthergranttothoseofherdefenderswhoareloversofpoetryandyetnotpoetsthepermissiontospeakinproseonherbehalf：letthemshownotonlythatsheispleasantbutalsousefultoStatesandtohumanlife，andwewilllisteninakindlyspirit；forifthiscanbeprovedweshallsurelybethegainers——Imean，ifthereisauseinpoetryaswellasadelight？
Certainly，hesaid，weshallthegainers。
Ifherdefencefails，then，mydearfriend，likeotherpersonswhoareenamouredofsomething，butputarestraintuponthemselveswhentheythinktheirdesiresareopposedtotheirinterests，sotoomustweafterthemannerofloversgiveherup，thoughnotwithoutastruggle。WetooareinspiredbythatloveofpoetrywhichtheeducationofnobleStateshasimplantedinus，andthereforewewouldhaveherappearatherbestandtruest；butsolongassheisunabletomakegoodherdefence，thisargumentofoursshallbeacharmtous，whichwewillrepeattoourselveswhilewelistentoherstrains；thatwemaynotfallawayintothechildishloveofherwhichcaptivatesthemany。Atalleventswearewellawarethatpoetrybeingsuchaswehavedescribedisnottoberegardedseriouslyasattainingtothetruth；andhewholistenstoher，fearingforthesafetyofthecitywhichiswithinhim，shouldbeonhisguardagainstherseductionsandmakeourwordshislaw。
Yes，hesaid，Iquiteagreewithyou。
Yes，Isaid，mydearGlaucon，forgreatistheissueatstake，greaterthanappears，whetheramanistobegoodorbad。Andwhatwillanyonebeprofitedifundertheinfluenceofhonourormoneyorpower，aye，orundertheexcitementofpoetry，heneglectjusticeandvirtue？
Yes，hesaid；Ihavebeenconvincedbytheargument，asIbelievethatanyoneelsewouldhavebeen。
Andyetnomentionhasbeenmadeofthegreatestprizesandrewardswhichawaitvirtue。
What，arethereanygreaterstill？Ifthereare，theymustbeofaninconceivablegreatness。
Why，Isaid，whatwasevergreatinashorttime？Thewholeperiodofthreescoreyearsandtenissurelybutalittlethingincomparisonwitheternity？
Sayrather’nothing，’hereplied。
Andshouldanimmortalbeingseriouslythinkofthislittlespaceratherthanofthewhole？
Ofthewhole，certainly。Butwhydoyouask？
Areyounotaware，Isaid，thatthesoulofmanisimmortalandimperishable？
Helookedatmeinastonishment，andsaid：No，byheaven：Andareyoureallypreparedtomaintainthis？
Yes，Isaid，Ioughttobe，andyoutoo——thereisnodifficultyinprovingit。
Iseeagreatdifficulty；butIshouldliketohearyoustatethisargumentofwhichyoumakesolight。
Listenthen。
Iamattending。
Thereisathingwhichyoucallgoodandanotherwhichyoucallevil？
Yes，hereplied。
Wouldyouagreewithmeinthinkingthatthecorruptinganddestroyingelementistheevil，andthesavingandimprovingelementthegood？
Yes。
Andyouadmitthateverythinghasagoodandalsoanevil；asophthalmiaistheeviloftheeyesanddiseaseofthewholebody；asmildewisofcorn，androtoftimber，orrustofcopperandiron：ineverything，orinalmosteverything，thereisaninherentevilanddisease？
Yes，hesaid。
Andanythingwhichisinfectedbyanyoftheseevilsismadeevil，andatlastwhollydissolvesanddies？
True。
Theviceandevilwhichisinherentineachisthedestructionofeach；andifthisdoesnotdestroythemthereisnothingelsethatwill；forgoodcertainlywillnotdestroythem，noragain，thatwhichisneithergoodnorevil。
Certainlynot。
If，then，wefindanynaturewhichhavingthisinherentcorruptioncannotbedissolvedordestroyed，wemaybecertainthatofsuchanaturethereisnodestruction？
Thatmaybeassumed。
Well，Isaid，andistherenoevilwhichcorruptsthesoul？
Yes，hesaid，therearealltheevilswhichwewerejustnowpassinginreview：unrighteousness，intemperance，cowardice，ignorance。
Butdoesanyofthesedissolveordestroyher？——andheredonotletusfallintotheerrorofsupposingthattheunjustandfoolishman，whenheisdetected，perishesthroughhisowninjustice，whichisanevilofthesoul。Taketheanalogyofthebody：Theevilofthebodyisadiseasewhichwastesandreducesandannihilatesthebody；andallthethingsofwhichwewerejustnowspeakingcometoannihilationthroughtheirowncorruptionattachingtothemandinheringinthemandsodestroyingthem。Isnotthistrue？
Yes。
Considerthesoulinlikemanner。Doestheinjusticeorotherevilwhichexistsinthesoulwasteandconsumeher？Dotheybyattachingtothesoulandinheringinheratlastbringhertodeath，andsoseparateherfromthebody？
Certainlynot。
Andyet，Isaid，itisunreasonabletosupposethatanythingcanperishfromwithoutthroughaffectionofexternalevilwhichcouldnotbedestroyedfromwithinbyacorruptionofitsown？
Itis，hereplied。
Consider，Isaid，Glaucon，thateventhebadnessoffood，whetherstaleness，decomposition，oranyotherbadquality，whenconfinedtotheactualfood，isnotsupposedtodestroythebody；although，ifthebadnessoffoodcommunicatescorruptiontothebody，thenweshouldsaythatthebodyhasbeendestroyedbyacorruptionofitself，whichisdisease，broughtonbythis；butthatthebody，beingonething，canbedestroyedbythebadnessoffood，whichisanother，andwhichdoesnotengenderanynaturalinfection——thisweshallabsolutelydeny？
Verytrue。
And，onthesameprinciple，unlesssomebodilyevilcanproduceanevilofthesoul，wemustnotsupposethatthesoul，whichisonething，canbedissolvedbyanymerelyexternalevilwhichbelongstoanother？
Yes，hesaid，thereisreasoninthat。
Eitherthen，letusrefutethisconclusion，or，whileitremainsunrefuted，letusneversaythatfever，oranyotherdisease，ortheknifeputtothethroat，oreventhecuttingupofthewholebodyintotheminutestpieces，candestroythesoul，untilsheherselfisprovedtobecomemoreunholyorunrighteousinconsequenceofthesethingsbeingdonetothebody；butthatthesoul，oranythingelseifnotdestroyedbyaninternalevil，canbedestroyedbyanexternalone，isnotto。beaffirmedbyanyman。
Andsurely，hereplied，noonewilleverprovethatthesoulsofmenbecomemoreunjustinconsequenceofdeath。
Butifsomeonewhowouldrathernotadmittheimmortalityofthesoulboldlydeniesthis，andsaysthatthedyingdoreallybecomemoreevilandunrighteous，then，ifthespeakerisright，Isupposethatinjustice，likedisease，mustbeassumedtobefataltotheunjust，andthatthosewhotakethisdisorderdiebythenaturalinherentpowerofdestructionwhichevilhas，andwhichkillsthemsoonerorlater，butinquiteanotherwayfromthatinwhich，atpresent，thewickedreceivedeathatthehandsofothersasthepenaltyoftheirdeeds？
Nay，hesaid，inthatcaseinjustice，iffataltotheunjust，willnotbesoveryterribletohim，forhewillbedeliveredfromevil。
ButIrathersuspecttheoppositetobethetruth，andthatinjusticewhich，ifithavethepower，willmurderothers，keepsthemurdereralive——aye，andwellawaketoo；sofarremovedisherdwelling—placefrombeingahouseofdeath。
True，Isaid；iftheinherentnaturalviceorevilofthesoulisunabletokillordestroyher，hardlywillthatwhichisappointedtobethedestructionofsomeotherbody，destroyasouloranythingelseexceptthatofwhichitwasappointedtobethedestruction。
Yes，thatcanhardlybe。
Butthesoulwhichcannotbedestroyedbyanevil，whetherinherentorexternal，mustexistforever，andifexistingforever，mustbeimmortal？
Certainly。
Thatistheconclusion，Isaid；and，ifatrueconclusion，thenthesoulsmustalwaysbethesame，forifnonebedestroyedtheywillnotdiminishinnumber。Neitherwilltheyincrease，fortheincreaseoftheimmortalnaturesmustcomefromsomethingmortal，andallthingswouldthusendinimmortality。
Verytrue。
Butthiswecannotbelieve——reasonwillnotallowus——anymorethanwecanbelievethesoul，inhertruestnature，tobefullofvarietyanddifferenceanddissimilarity。
Whatdoyoumean？hesaid。