Itwillbeclearenoughthenthatinhisordinarydealingswhichgivehimareputationforhonestyhecoerceshisbadpassionsbyanenforcedvirtue；notmakingthemseethattheyarewrong，ortamingthembyreason，butbynecessityandfearconstrainingthem，andbecausehetremblesforhispossessions。
Tobesure。
Yes，indeed，mydearfriend，butyouwillfindthatthenaturaldesiresofthedronecommonlyexistinhimallthesamewheneverhehastospendwhatisnothisown。
Yes，andtheywillbestronginhimtoo。
Theman，then，willbeatwarwithhimself；hewillbetwomen，andnotone；but，ingeneral，hisbetterdesireswillbefoundtoprevailoverhisinferiorones。
True。
Forthesereasonssuchanonewillbemorerespectablethanmostpeople；yetthetruevirtueofaunanimousandharmonioussoulwillfleefarawayandnevercomenearhim。
Ishouldexpectso。
Andsurely，themiserindividuallywillbeanignoblecompetitorinaStateforanyprizeofvictory，orotherobjectofhonourableambition；hewillnotspendhismoneyinthecontestforglory；soafraidisheofawakeninghisexpensiveappetitesandinvitingthemtohelpandjoininthestruggle；intrueoligarchicalfashionhefightswithasmallpartonlyofhisresources，andtheresultcommonlyisthathelosestheprizeandsaveshismoney。
Verytrue。
Canweanylongerdoubt，then，thatthemiserandmoney—makeranswerstotheoligarchicalState？
Therecanbenodoubt。
Nextcomesdemocracy；ofthistheoriginandnaturehavestilltobeconsideredbyus；andthenwewillenquireintothewaysofthedemocraticman，andbringhimupforjudgement。
That，hesaid，isourmethod。
Well，Isaid，andhowdoesthechangefromoligarchyintodemocracyarise？Isitnotonthiswise？——ThegoodatwhichsuchaStatealmsistobecomeasrichaspossible，adesirewhichisinsatiable？
Whatthen？
Therulers，beingawarethattheirpowerrestsupontheirwealth，refusetocurtailbylawtheextravaganceofthespendthriftyouthbecausetheygainbytheirruin；theytakeinterestfromthemandbuyuptheirestatesandthusincreasetheirownwealthandimportance？
Tobesure。
TherecanbenodoubtthattheloveofwealthandthespiritofmoderationcannotexisttogetherincitizensofthesameStatetoanyconsiderableextent；oneortheotherwillbedisregarded。
Thatistolerablyclear。
AndinoligarchicalStates，fromthegeneralspreadofcarelessnessandextravagance，menofgoodfamilyhaveoftenbeenreducedtobeggary？
Yes，often。
Andstilltheyremaininthecity；theretheyare，readytostingandfullyarmed，andsomeofthemowemoney，somehaveforfeitedtheircitizenship；athirdclassareinbothpredicaments；andtheyhateandconspireagainstthosewhohavegottheirproperty，andagainsteverybodyelse，andareeagerforrevolution。
Thatistrue。
Ontheotherhand，themenofbusiness，stoopingastheywalk，andpretendingnoteventoseethosewhomtheyhavealreadyruined，inserttheirsting——thatis，theirmoney——intosomeoneelsewhoisnotonhisguardagainstthem，andrecovertheparentsummanytimesovermultipliedintoafamilyofchildren：andsotheymakedroneandpaupertoaboundintheState。
Yes，hesaid，thereareplentyofthem——thatiscertain。
Theevilblazesuplikeafire；andtheywillnotextinguishit，eitherbyrestrictingaman’suseofhisownproperty，orbyanotherremedy：
Whatother？
Onewhichisthenextbest，andhastheadvantageofcompellingthecitizenstolooktotheircharacters：——Lettherebeageneralrulethateveryoneshallenterintovoluntarycontractsathisownrisk，andtherewillbelessofthisscandalousmoney—making，andtheevilsofwhichwewerespeakingwillbegreatlylessenedintheState。
Yes，theywillbegreatlylessened。
Atpresentthegovernors，inducedbythemotiveswhichIhavenamed，treattheirsubjectsbadly；whiletheyandtheiradherents，especiallytheyoungmenofthegoverningclass，arehabituatedtoleadalifeofluxuryandidlenessbothofbodyandmind；theydonothing，andareincapableofresistingeitherpleasureorpain。
Verytrue。
Theythemselvescareonlyformakingmoney，andareasindifferentasthepaupertothecultivationofvirtue。
Yes，quiteasindifferent。
Suchisthestateofaffairswhichprevailsamongthem。Andoftenrulersandtheirsubjectsmaycomeinoneanother’sway，whetheronapilgrimageoramarch，asfellow—soldiersorfellow—sailors；aye，andtheymayobservethebehaviourofeachotherintheverymomentofdanger——forwheredangeris，thereisnofearthatthepoorwillbedespisedbytherich——andverylikelythewirysunburntpoormanmaybeplacedinbattleatthesideofawealthyonewhohasneverspoilthiscomplexionandhasplentyofsuperfluousflesh——whenheseessuchanonepuffingandathiswit’send，howcanheavoiddrawingtheconclusionthatmenlikehimareonlyrichbecausenoonehasthecouragetodespoilthem？Andwhentheymeetinprivatewillnotpeoplebesayingtooneanother’Ourwarriorsarenotgoodformuch’？
Yes，hesaid，Iamquiteawarethatthisistheirwayoftalking。
And，asinabodywhichisdiseasedtheadditionofatouchfromwithoutmaybringonillness，andsometimesevenwhenthereisnoexternalprovocationacommotionmayarisewithin—inthesamewaywhereverthereisweaknessintheStatethereisalsolikelytobeillness，ofwhichtheoccasionsmaybeveryslight，theonepartyintroducingfromwithouttheiroligarchical，theothertheirdemocraticalallies，andthentheStatefallssick，andisatwarwithherself；andmaybeattimesdistracted，evenwhenthereisnoexternalcause。
Yes，surely。
Andthendemocracycomesintobeingafterthepoorhaveconqueredtheiropponents，slaughteringsomeandbanishingsome，whiletotheremaindertheygiveanequalshareoffreedomandpower；andthisistheformofgovernmentinwhichthemagistratesarecommonlyelectedbylot。
Yes，hesaid，thatisthenatureofdemocracy，whethertherevolutionhasbeeneffectedbyarms，orwhetherfearhascausedtheoppositepartytowithdraw。
Andnowwhatistheirmanneroflife，andwhatsortofagovernmenthavethey？forasthegovernmentis，suchwillbetheman。
Clearly，hesaid。
Inthefirstplace，aretheynotfree；andisnotthecityfulloffreedomandfrankness——amanmaysayanddowhathelikes？
’Tissaidso，hereplied。
Andwherefreedomis，theindividualisclearlyabletoorderforhimselfhisownlifeashepleases？
Clearly。
TheninthiskindofStatetherewillbethegreatestvarietyofhumannatures？
Therewill。
This，then，seemslikelytobethefairestofStates，beinganembroideredrobewhichisspangledwitheverysortofflower。Andjustaswomenandchildrenthinkavarietyofcolourstobeofallthingsmostcharming，sotherearemanymentowhomthisState，whichisspangledwiththemannersandcharactersofmankind，willappeartobethefairestofStates。
Yes。
Yes，mygoodSir，andtherewillbenobetterinwhichtolookforagovernment。
Why？
Becauseofthelibertywhichreignsthere——theyhaveacompleteassortmentofconstitutions；andhewhohasamindtoestablishaState，aswehavebeendoing，mustgotoademocracyashewouldtoabazaaratwhichtheysellthem，andpickouttheonethatsuitshim；
then，whenhehasmadehischoice，hemayfoundhisState。
Hewillbesuretohavepatternsenough。
Andtherebeingnonecessity，Isaid，foryoutogoverninthisState，evenifyouhavethecapacity，ortobegoverned，unlessyoulike，orgotowarwhentherestgotowar，ortobeatpeacewhenothersareatpeace，unlessyouaresodisposed——therebeingnonecessityalso，becausesomelawforbidsyoutoholdofficeorbeadicast，thatyoushouldnotholdofficeorbeadicast，ifyouhaveafancy——isnotthisawayoflifewhichforthemomentissupremelydelightfulForthemoment，yes。
Andisnottheirhumanitytothecondemnedinsomecasesquitecharming？Haveyounotobservedhow，inademocracy，manypersons，althoughtheyhavebeensentencedtodeathorexile，juststaywheretheyareandwalkabouttheworld——thegentlemanparadeslikeahero，andnobodyseesorcares？
Yes，hereplied，manyandmanyaone。
Seetoo，Isaid，theforgivingspiritofdemocracy，andthe’don’tcare’abouttrifles，andthedisregardwhichsheshowsofallthefineprincipleswhichwesolemnlylaiddownatthefoundationofthecity——aswhenwesaidthat，exceptinthecaseofsomerarelygiftednature，thereneverwillbeagoodmanwhohasnotfromhischildhoodbeenusedtoplayamidthingsofbeautyandmakeofthemajoyandastudy——howgrandlydoesshetrampleallthesefinenotionsofoursunderherfeet，nevergivingathoughttothepursuitswhichmakeastatesman，andpromotingtohonouranyonewhoprofessestobethepeople’sfriend。
Yes，sheisofanoblespirit。
Theseandotherkindredcharacteristicsarepropertodemocracy，whichisacharmingformofgovernment，fullofvarietyanddisorder，anddispensingasortofequalitytoequalsandunequalsalike。
Weknowherwell。
Considernow，Isaid，whatmannerofmantheindividualis，orratherconsider，asinthecaseoftheState，howhecomesintobeing。
Verygood，hesaid。
Isnotthistheway——heisthesonofthemiserlyandoligarchicalfatherwhohastrainedhiminhisownhabits？
Exactly。
And，likehisfather，hekeepsunderbyforcethepleasureswhichareofthespendingandnotofthegettingsort，beingthosewhicharecalledunnecessary？
Obviously。
Wouldyoulike，forthesakeofclearness，todistinguishwhicharethenecessaryandwhicharetheunnecessarypleasures？
Ishould。
Arenotnecessarypleasuresthoseofwhichwecannotgetrid，andofwhichthesatisfactionisabenefittous？Andtheyarerightlyso，becauseweareframedbynaturetodesirebothwhatisbeneficialandwhatisnecessary，andcannothelpit。
True。
Wearenotwrongthereforeincallingthemnecessary？
Wearenot。
Andthedesiresofwhichamanmaygetrid，ifhetakespainsfromhisyouthupwards——ofwhichthepresence，moreover，doesnogood，andinsomecasesthereverseofgood——shallwenotberightinsayingthatalltheseareunnecessary？
Yes，certainly。
Supposeweselectanexampleofeitherkind，inorderthatwemayhaveageneralnotionofthem？
Verygood。
Willnotthedesireofeating，thatis，ofsimplefoodandcondiments，insofarastheyarerequiredforhealthandstrength，beofthenecessaryclass？
ThatiswhatIshouldsuppose。
Thepleasureofeatingisnecessaryintwoways；itdoesusgoodanditisessentialtothecontinuanceoflife？
Yes。
Butthecondimentsareonlynecessaryinsofarastheyaregoodforhealth？
Certainly。
Andthedesirewhichgoesbeyondthis，ormoredelicatefood，orotherluxuries，whichmightgenerallybegotridof，ifcontrolledandtrainedinyouth，andishurtfultothebody，andhurtfultothesoulinthepursuitofwisdomandvirtue，mayberightlycalledunnecessary？
Verytrue。
Maywenotsaythatthesedesiresspend，andthattheothersmakemoneybecausetheyconducetoproduction？
Certainly。
Andofthepleasuresoflove，andallotherpleasures，thesameholdsgood？
True。
Andthedroneofwhomwespokewashewhowassurfeitedinpleasuresanddesiresofthissort，andwastheslaveoftheunnecessarydesires，whereashewhowassubjectothenecessaryonlywasmiserlyandoligarchical？
Verytrue。
Again，letusseehowthedemocraticalmangrowsoutoftheoligarchical：thefollowing，asIsuspect，iscommonlytheprocess。
Whatistheprocess？
Whenayoungmanwhohasbeenbroughtupaswewerejustnowdescribing，inavulgarandmiserlyway，hastasteddrones’honeyandhascometoassociatewithfierceandcraftynatureswhoareabletoprovideforhimallsortsofrefinementsandvarietiesofpleasure——then，asyoumayimagine，thechangewillbeginoftheoligarchicalprinciplewithinhimintothedemocratical？
Inevitably。
Andasinthecitylikewashelpinglike，andthechangewaseffectedbyanalliancefromwithoutassistingonedivisionofthecitizens，sotootheyoungmanischangedbyaclassofdesirescomingfromwithouttoassistthedesireswithinhim，thatwhichisandalikeagainhelpingthatwhichisakinandalike？
Certainly。
Andiftherebeanyallywhichaidstheoligarchicalprinciplewithinhim，whethertheinfluenceofafatherorofkindred，advisingorrebukinghim，thentherearisesinhissoulafactionandanoppositefaction，andhegoestowarwithhimself。
Itmustbeso。
Andtherearetimeswhenthedemocraticalprinciplegiveswaytotheoligarchical，andsomeofhisdesiresdie，andothersarebanished；
aspiritofreverenceentersintotheyoungman’ssoulandorderisrestored。
Yes，hesaid，thatsometimeshappens。
Andthen，again，aftertheolddesireshavebeendrivenout，freshonesspringup，whichareakintothem，andbecausehe，theirfather，doesnotknowhowtoeducatethem，waxfierceandnumerous。
Yes，hesaid，thatisapttobetheway。
Theydrawhimtohisoldassociates，andholdingsecretintercoursewiththem，breedandmultiplyinhim。
Verytrue。
Atlengththeyseizeuponthecitadeloftheyoungman’ssoul，whichtheyperceivetobevoidofallaccomplishmentsandfairpursuitsandtruewords，whichmaketheirabodeinthemindsofmenwhoaredeartothegods，andaretheirbestguardiansandsentinels。
Nonebetter。
Falseandboastfulconceitsandphrasesmountupwardsandtaketheirplace。
Theyarecertaintodoso。
Andsotheyoungmanreturnsintothecountryofthelotus—eaters，andtakesuphisdwellingthereinthefaceofallmen；andifanyhelpbesentbyhisfriendstotheoligarchicalpartofhim，theaforesaidvainconceitsshutthegateoftheking’sfastness；andtheywillneitherallowtheembassyitselftoenter，privateifprivateadvisersofferthefatherlycounseloftheagedwilltheylistentothemorreceivethem。Thereisabattleandtheygaintheday，andthenmodesty，whichtheycallsilliness，isignominiouslythrustintoexilebythem，andtemperance，whichtheynicknameunmanliness，istrampledinthemireandcastforth；theypersuadementhatmoderationandorderlyexpenditurearevulgarityandmeanness，andso，bythehelpofarabbleofevilappetites，theydrivethembeyondtheborder。
Yes，withawill。
Andwhentheyhaveemptiedandsweptcleanthesoulofhimwhoisnowintheirpowerandwhoisbeinginitiatedbythemingreatmysteries，thenextthingistobringbacktotheirhouseinsolenceandanarchyandwasteandimpudenceinbrightarrayhavinggarlandsontheirheads，andagreatcompanywiththem，hymningtheirpraisesandcallingthembysweetnames；insolencetheytermbreeding，andanarchyliberty，andwastemagnificence，andimpudencecourage。Andsotheyoungmanpassesoutofhisoriginalnature，whichwastrainedintheschoolofnecessity，intothefreedomandlibertinismofuselessandunnecessarypleasures。
Yes，hesaid，thechangeinhimisvisibleenough。
Afterthisheliveson，spendinghismoneyandlabourandtimeonunnecessarypleasuresquiteasmuchasonnecessaryones；butifhebefortunate，andisnottoomuchdisorderedinhiswits，whenyearshaveelapsed，andtheheydayofpassionisover——supposingthathethenre—admitsintothecitysomepartoftheexiledvirtues，anddoesnotwhollygivehimselfuptotheirsuccessors——inthatcasehebalanceshispleasuresandlivesinasortofequilibrium，puttingthegovernmentofhimselfintothehandsoftheonewhichcomesfirstandwinstheturn；andwhenhehashadenoughofthat，thenintothehandsofanother；hedespisesnoneofthembutencouragesthemallequally。
Verytrue，hesaid。
Neitherdoeshereceiveorletpassintothefortressanytruewordofadvice；ifanyonesaystohimthatsomepleasuresarethesatisfactionsofgoodandnobledesires，andothersofevildesires，andthatheoughttouseandhonoursomeandchastiseandmastertheothers——wheneverthisisrepeatedtohimheshakeshisheadandsaysthattheyareallalike，andthatoneisasgoodasanother。
Yes，hesaid；thatisthewaywithhim。
Yes，Isaid，helivesfromdaytodayindulgingtheappetiteofthehour；andsometimesheislappedindrinkandstrainsoftheflute；thenhebecomesawater—drinker，andtriestogetthin；thenhetakesaturnatgymnastics；sometimesidlingandneglectingeverything，thenoncemorelivingthelifeofaphilosopher；oftenhe—isbusywithpolitics，andstartstohisfeetandsaysanddoeswhatevercomesintohishead；and，ifheisemulousofanyonewhoisawarrior，offheisinthatdirection，orofmenofbusiness，oncemoreinthat。Hislifehasneitherlawnororder；andthisdistractedexistencehetermsjoyandblissandfreedom；andsohegoeson。
Yes，hereplied，heisalllibertyandequality。
Yes，Isaid；hislifeismotleyandmanifoldandanepitomeofthelivesofmany；——heanswerstotheStatewhichwedescribedasfairandspangled。Andmanyamanandmanyawomanwilltakehimfortheirpattern，andmanyaconstitutionandmanyanexampleofmannersiscontainedinhim。
Justso。
Lethimthenbesetoveragainstdemocracy；hemaytrulybecalledthedemocraticman。
Letthatbehisplace，hesaid。
Lastofallcomesthemostbeautifulofall，manandStatealike，tyrannyandthetyrant；thesewehavenowtoconsider。
Quitetrue，hesaid。